Co-Parenting Part 3- Embracing Unbreakable Bonds
Welcome back to part 3. So right when I left Indiana, I went back to North Carolina. When I got back to North Carolina, I had the mindset of I'm a do this alone. I'm gonna be a single mother. I was raised by a single mom, so that wasn't so detrimental to me.
Thee Real Joy:I didn't feel bad for my kid, because that's what I have for myself. So I had this mindset of I just gotta do it alone and with my mom. So I would say for Kehlani's 1st year, I remember I started dating right when Kehlani turned 1. I started dating. And I was still, you know, I was working at the time.
Thee Real Joy:We were, like, communicating, but I think it was more of, like, the things she needed. Like, I'll be like, hey, send me this much for this. Send me this we would send pictures to each I would send you pictures and videos and we would FaceTime. There was not nothing romantic. There was nothing, you know, like, it was just that, which is really funny with me dating because no one could believe that I had a baby this young and like, oh, I know your baby daddy is still in the picture.
Thee Real Joy:And I'm like, no. He isn't. No. Like, for her, but for me, when it came to like the I think everything was left in Indiana Yeah. For the both of us.
Thee Real Joy:Like, when we left, we left everything there. Because like I said, things had gotten so bad. So that kind of I think me dating with Kehlani being so young, that shaped our co parenting relationship at a very early point of us being parents. Because I think it added another element that I didn't even realize. Okay.
Thee Real Joy:Like, now I have this daughter who's impressionable, who at any point, if a guy is gonna be around her, she will see them as her father. And at the time, I was dating someone who wanted to be a father, who really yeah. I guess they really wanted to be a dad, who was really looking at this opportunity, who kinda fell for Kehlani very fast. She was a cute baby. So I don't think that was hard.
Thee Real Joy:He worked at my mother's job. So my mom went to another college. She worked at another college in North Carolina. When she left us, she worked at another college. So he worked at the college with her, so I would bring Kehlani on campus a lot to visit my mom.
Thee Real Joy:If it was like Thanksgiving, I would like dress her up in Thanksgiving outfits and Christmas outfits. So everyone on campus knew Kehlani, so that's kinda how I like slid my way into that relationship. So it felt really natural for me. I didn't really have any concerns of, you know, the co parenting relationship. But I think it kinda collided when we were trying to figure out, okay, how am I gonna see my kid?
Thee Real Joy:Am I coming to North Carolina? If
Ivan Jackson:I Which is what I usually do. That was like a a no brainer.
Thee Real Joy:Yeah.
Ivan Jackson:It don't matter if we talking or not.
Thee Real Joy:Yeah. We always because we were family, going back to that family, no matter how ugly things had gotten, no matter what we said usually yesterday, I was like, okay. So am I coming there? Like, how are we doing this? And I remember I remember, like, it was I was in my bedroom and Kehlani was on FaceTime with you, I think, in her room across from me.
Thee Real Joy:And she was young, like, like 22, and she would take the iPad and go talk to you. And I didn't know that she was talking to you. You remember that? Mhmm. I didn't know that she was on the iPad with him.
Thee Real Joy:And I was talking to the person who I was with at the time, and we were kinda going back and forth. Because I think I had already told you that you can come and stay at the house if you were coming to see Kehlani. And he had a issue with that. He was like, that's not normal. Like, people don't do that.
Thee Real Joy:And I'm like, what do you mean people don't do that? Like, that's what we do. Like, he's coming to stay here. And I didn't see anything wrong with it. And I think at that point, that's where things went from ugly to ugliest.
Thee Real Joy:Like, that's the ugliest things I got with us because I remember telling you, like, okay, so you can't actually stay here because my boyfriend doesn't want you to be here. Yeah. And you can kinda talk about what that felt like.
Ivan Jackson:I I just preface it with like, if we're following the story right, think about how I've positioned myself or how others have positioned me to show up in her life. So imagine how I feel or what I think I represent. No matter how much we hate each other at the time, like, there's a level of, I don't think she will ever play with me like that or she would know better.
Thee Real Joy:And I I it's not to cut you off. I don't think you understood the level of hate I have for you at this moment.
Ivan Jackson:No. I think I did. I think I did in retrospect. I think I did in retrospect, and I think it's warranted, 1, 2, because there was a level of hate that I might have we might have shared. Right?
Ivan Jackson:But I think just hearing that at the time, it went to ugliest because I felt like despite how nasty it got and shit, let's call it like it is. I didn't expect her to be a baby mama. I didn't expect her to do the shit I saw on TV. I felt like she wasn't coming from the depths of the quote, unquote hoods that I'm coming from in a similar sit like, you went to high school in Stoughton. That's a suburb of Boston.
Ivan Jackson:Yeah. I'm from the Bronx. So a lot of that shit and rhetoric fed into that. So when I started to get and I think let's lead into that too. Like, the men on the maternal side of my family have an interesting history with women.
Ivan Jackson:So there's a level of things that I might have seen growing up, not to say too much, right, about males and their relationships with women and how it shows up, particularly how the women show up in that space, the level of chaos they may bring more than peace. Right? I felt like I started to identify with that. A lot of that rhetoric was like, what's going on with the men in my family and the women they choose? And I think a lot of that language led into, it's no way that the person I'm around or been involved with is gonna play with me like that because I show up as this guy who understands the Quran and the principles of the nation of Islam and what it is to be a black man and ran a black student union.
Ivan Jackson:So for me, it was like, why would you think that, like, I wouldn't wanna be this stand up person? And why wouldn't you think I wouldn't have a man to man, visceral, gangster angry reaction around this nigga being around this guy being around my kid? You know what I'm saying? And I think that I tried to leave There was no room in my mind then for you to think that Kehlani was gonna be that young and have somebody that I couldn't check and verify around. And but a lot of that wasn't just coming as her dad.
Ivan Jackson:And I think that in this space, and I think you might notice, but I've shared this with you before, there was still always a general level of concern for you because I felt like because of the level of responsibility your mother left me with around dealing with you, that there was a certain level of rapport, understanding, or way to move that you should know and understand vicariously from being around me. And I think that the presence of who that person you're discussing showed up and how it happened, that your mom has something to do with it too, made the shit so ugly to me because it's like
Thee Real Joy:It kinda gave off the same thing Yeah. Like, the same way that I met him Yeah. How I met you. Yeah.
Ivan Jackson:So it was like and then, you know, not to fast forward it, but and I'm I'm totally evolved in a space where, you know, there's other parents and blended families. But the idea that my kids so young was like, yo, mommy told me I had 2 daddies. To me, that was a symbol of her hate for me. And it's like, how fucking could you? Right?
Ivan Jackson:Like, the audacity of me, how I show up as a black man, you got the fucking nerve to play with me like that with my kid. Like my not anybody else kid, my fucking kids. You know me. You understand what I'm saying? You know me like to a to a t.
Ivan Jackson:You know me to a t. Like, don't fucking play with me. And that that was a lot of my rhetoric and language around it. And it was like it was even more like one day I went down there, nigga bought them to the airport. And I think bought in, there was already a level of whatever might have happened to her, whatever dumb shit he did to her that impacted my child as she was able to see.
Ivan Jackson:Right? We don't have to speak about it viscerally. Right? But like
Thee Real Joy:And we already did.
Ivan Jackson:Oh, okay. I see.
Thee Real Joy:1st episode.
Ivan Jackson:Okay. Yeah. So there's a level of I didn't know that. I had an idea.
Thee Real Joy:That hadn't happened yet though.
Ivan Jackson:Oh, well, it it hadn't. Maybe maybe he came to pick up and do something once or twice. I know after it happened, I've seen him once. No? No?
Ivan Jackson:Not at all?
Thee Real Joy:I always talked about if you saw him, but you never saw him.
Ivan Jackson:Oh, yeah. Because there was a level I had knocked that nigga out respectfully. Like, it was a level of that. Like, I don't know. I'm not supposed to curse on the podcast.
Ivan Jackson:No. You can't. Oh, because it was really a level of that. Like, like why are you playing with me? Like- It's relatable.
Ivan Jackson:Yeah, because, but I've showed up. You've showed up. Like, nah, but for real though, it was a level of, I've showed up this way, no matter how nasty this shit is got, I never really liked integrity. There was a level of like, I'm a stay in no business, I could have been rude, I could have been disrespectful, but I wasn't gonna let nobody play with you or play about you. You understand what I'm saying?
Thee Real Joy:For sure.
Ivan Jackson:So it was like, and not to speak too in-depth, but I felt like there wasn't no men around you like that. Yeah. So it was like for you to even play in that wheelhouse, for men to come around you and kind of be like that, and I'm young as shit, and I'm standing on that.
Thee Real Joy:He was older than you.
Ivan Jackson:He was like a little funny, like, yeah, yeah,
Thee Real Joy:and a lady just
Ivan Jackson:go down
Thee Real Joy:there. He
Ivan Jackson:where it was. Really related.
Thee Real Joy:No. I'm here. Because it it
Ivan Jackson:was a level of like, alright. We could beef Ebony with his certain lines that we can't cross. And I think in that space, it was it went ugly because it was like, alright. Fuck you with however you moving. And I think that there was a level of I resent you, but I'm a still hold it down.
Ivan Jackson:I think after those moments, there was a level of, it's really just about my kids. I'm not gonna let you die on my watch.
Thee Real Joy:But if you
Ivan Jackson:do Nah, it wasn't even if you do, I'm not gonna let you die on my watch, but if you're on fire, it's gonna take a while for me to spit on you. Eventually, I'm gonna put the fire out. Respectfully, I'm eventually, I'm gonna put the fire out, but.
Thee Real Joy:And it's funny that I'm laughing now because how you're saying how you felt now, I had already felt that from before. Yeah. So I think for me, it's like I used to get so mad in those moments as being someone that I had to figure out ways of co parenting with you because, like, the relationship was so hard to maintain because I feel like you you thought at the time you could do whatever you wanted, say whatever you wanted, treat me however you wanted, but I had to remain this level of respect for you. And I think that this was my first time where I did not put you first. Right?
Thee Real Joy:Like, I didn't I didn't think about how this is gonna affect you. I didn't care. You know, like, I had this I think I always, like, stayed in line and, like you know what I mean? Like, I I felt like I always, like, held it down. Like like, I I let I let you get off.
Thee Real Joy:I let you, like, crash out on me. And I would say, but I never changed my heart posture when they came to you. And I think this was the first time where you actually could feel my heart, like, click off.
Ivan Jackson:Yeah. And I was away from you.
Thee Real Joy:Yeah.
Ivan Jackson:So it's like thinking about the context of the relationship as a whole, like, the largest kind of looming elephant in the room is like, we never really left each other. Like we did in the summertime, but in all 45 years down.
Thee Real Joy:Yeah, it's
Ivan Jackson:not always back
Thee Real Joy:around each other.
Ivan Jackson:It was just always this, and that shit's not good for anybody.
Thee Real Joy:It's not bad timing.
Ivan Jackson:Yeah. So by the time we it's almost so that older folks expected us to be together. And I think we both can agree that when we talking about people teaching us to pivot, there was nobody around us, even Jamie, like she might have hinted at it. Right? But it was nobody like, yo, y'all have to you need to disappear for 3 months, and you need to disappear for 3 months, and y'all need to find something to do, and come back together and kind of figure it out.
Ivan Jackson:It was like once we got okay with figuring it out, because we were generally both the good kids in our family compared to everybody else, or the ones that would get in trouble, not get caught, but you know, still have a history like So we flew under the radar for a lot of stuff, and in this, because we was in college, because we was this, that, and the third, we got a certain rapport from adults that could have damaged how we dealt with each other, and so the rest of the world. Right? And I can say that now at 32 years old, like, you gotta give these the young people responsibility, but you gotta walk and talk them through it too.
Thee Real Joy:So I think we're talking about now, Kevani, is to I say, like, we're what we're talking about now, that kind of was like the overall feel of, like, how we were on the co parenting journey. Like, very disrespectful, very I like, I feel like I can treat you like this because you're treating me like this. I remember, like, all of our conversations were, like, very yeah. Like, well, you said this to me yesterday, so I'm a say this to you again today. Like, and right when we would, like, try to get someone to understand, I was like, well, you want me to understand you, but you ain't trying to understand me.
Thee Real Joy:Like, it was very much that, and my mom, I think, was in my corner a lot, and I think your mom was in your corner. So we weren't And I
Ivan Jackson:don't know how often they talk to each other. Yeah. You know how sometimes there's a level of, I the kids is bugging. Let's let let us let the older adults talk. It wasn't a level of that.
Thee Real Joy:No. I don't think yeah. They were 100% behind their kid. Mhmm. So then kinda like what we were talking about on episode the first couple episodes of the podcast, 2018, I ended up losing my mom.
Thee Real Joy:And that was a pivotal point of co parenting for me. Because this whole time, I was doing it with my mom, with you there. You know, you would come and get Kehlani sometimes, get like a round weight. Oh, one way around
Ivan Jackson:Round trip. Round trip. Yeah.
Thee Real Joy:Round trip. Yeah. So you will come to North Carolina, get Kehlani
Ivan Jackson:Pick her up at the airport.
Thee Real Joy:Pick her up at the airport and then fly back. You would probably keep her for like a week to 2 weeks at a time. I would say maybe this happened like 3 times a year. Yeah. Yeah.
Thee Real Joy:3 times a year, and then FaceTime, all these different things. So in my head, I was a single parent. I was a single parent in my head. Fast forward, I lose my mom in 2018, the person who was joining with me. Right?
Thee Real Joy:And I remember getting to a point where I was scared. Right? Because I had all these things going on in my life, and the people around me were painting my picture as if if I were to call you for help, that this would be the moment where it's like, I was right. Right? Like your family would be like, I knew she was incompetent to be a mom.
Thee Real Joy:I knew that she wasn't gonna be able to handle it and I didn't wanna prove people right. But also as a mom, I was willing to make that sacrifice because I knew I wasn't okay, with everything going on around me. And I knew that Kehlani would be good if I could get her to y'all. So I remember, like, sitting down and making this decision, and kinda weighing out my options, like, should I call him? Should I tell him what's going on, you know, with this person that he already didn't like?
Thee Real Joy:And with with me losing my mom and with me having to go to this mental hospital now. And maybe your recollection is, like, a little better. I think that you got her after I got out of the hospital. I think she was with my godmother and her daughter at the time. You might even got her from them at the time.
Thee Real Joy:My brain
Ivan Jackson:I ain't
Thee Real Joy:so lost. It gets foggy around that area.
Ivan Jackson:I wanna say this and make sure I get to that point. I feel like when all this is going on, I'm not clueless, but I feel clueless.
Thee Real Joy:Oh, yeah. You were definitely clueless.
Ivan Jackson:Clueless to the point where I was at work one day, and she just called me to tell me her mom died. And I don't know her mom had told me she was sick. I don't know if you ever told me. Your mom told me. Yeah.
Ivan Jackson:And she says, son, I'm sick. And it's like, to me and my mom, I was the closest thing to her mother. Like it was her, but in my mom You said
Thee Real Joy:2 kids, like you had 2 kids.
Ivan Jackson:Yeah. It was like, in my mom, like her mom's was close to her, but her mom's just telling me things that she wasn't telling her. You understand? There was a level of who her mother widowed. I was on that with everybody around her mother.
Ivan Jackson:Like as a boy being around, as a son. So it was like, you couldn't even get next to miss Sherry for real. So like, I think a large part of this as we talk about it is like, I just didn't know. I had an idea, but I had already resented you. I just I just didn't know.
Ivan Jackson:Right? And and and to to put that in context, like, it that moment for me is always kinda pivotal when thinking about when Kehlani came. I know Kehlani know maybe you and your cousin brought her to Anthony's wedding. My cousin got married. He got married in in Virginia.
Ivan Jackson:That's how Kehlani got to me. Yep. My cousin Anthony got but I know after that, I ain't got a lot I'm not gonna say things went south for her, but I really started to know what that yeah. What the hell was going on? I think preface all that with this, because this is my friend.
Ivan Jackson:Right? There was a level of, I knew her family was on funny, she'd have screwed my friend for the camera, but we real and relatable. There was a level of understanding why I felt like her family was doing family type things. Right? It wasn't necessarily always encouraging her.
Ivan Jackson:And I think for a while, her mother has set up that the person that was standing on business about that shit, if it wasn't her, it was me. So there was a certain level of shit her family wasn't gonna do if I was around, or they knew that I had something to say, whether or not we was together. And I think that even now talking about it, I struggle with the fact that I didn't know Yeah. Or I found out too late, because it wasn't about, it wasn't about what the fuck we had to bicker about. It was about, shit, I always say like, you gonna stand on business whether we beefing or not.
Ivan Jackson:As a human, I'm not letting nobody play with you or about you. And it was like, the people that was closest to you play, and your mother used to say this shit. And I used to tell her I wasn't gonna let it happen, so back to that level of responsibility. You dig me? I used to tell her that I wasn't gonna let that shit happen, even though we beefing.
Ivan Jackson:Part of my resentment too, Pauly, was yo, you ain't telling me so I couldn't do what I had to do, like and it was like
Thee Real Joy:No. But I think that, like, when we're talking about this transition and, like, there was this level of trust there because even though everyone was trying to, like, paint you to be this way, at the end of the day, I was like, no, this is Kehlani's dad, and I didn't know you to be, like, my friend
Ivan Jackson:Yeah.
Thee Real Joy:Or my you know, like, how we always say this sibling. So it's like, this is the person that I want Kehlani to be with at this time Yeah. While I figure out this transition and while I try to get out of North Carolina, because that was the goal. And even though I didn't tell you at the time how nervous I was about giving her to you. I think that you could just feel Yeah.
Thee Real Joy:Where I was in life. And I think that we just had this, like, unsaid, like, conversation. It wasn't we'd never we've never been to court with each other. We've never even had to do that. I think it was like a, hey, hold me down real quick.
Thee Real Joy:Like, I I got a lot going on. Hold me down. And I think that that kinda started, that trust that I was able to, like, put in you even though a lot of people around me were like, this is gonna be the time where they take Kehlani. This is gonna be like, they're gonna use this as leverage.
Ivan Jackson:Crazy.
Thee Real Joy:I think that that was where our co parenting relationship started to pivot in a more positive way because I think you did start working with me where, like, wherever I was living, you know, we would meet. Or there was a lot of times that out of the week, I was staying at your house 3 to 4 times out of that week because I wanted to see Kalani. No matter where I lived, I had to come see Kalani. So I will I lived with you a lot of these times even before I lived with you Yeah. I lived with you because no matter where I was okay.
Thee Real Joy:I'm coming to New York for this weekend, but you can fast forward us to us being back under the same roof with Kehlani, with me, with you, your father, and your mother. Now Which
Ivan Jackson:is a level of life.
Thee Real Joy:Which is crazy under that same roof and always going back to like no matter what happened between us, there was this like level of family and this like unconditional love. Right? Like, no matter what it looks like, no matter what I just said to you, no matter what you said to me, we have this unconditional love because we have this little person who is a product of this, all of this. Right? Yeah.
Thee Real Joy:And I think that I would say for me, 2020, I think started to become like the pivotal point for us and the positive and just like okay, this has happened. This is how you feel. This is how I feel. I've said this. You said this.
Thee Real Joy:But at the end of the day and I used to say this to you all the time. You don't have to like me. You say it's some matter. I said, You don't have to like me to but we're family. You gotta deal with me for the rest of your life.
Thee Real Joy:I remember I would say that to you in arguments all the time. And I think one day that just clicked for both of us, like, yeah, we family. Like, no matter how we got here, we're stuck.
Ivan Jackson:I think, yes. And about this space, about me not knowing, I think that there was a level of like, just wanting to protect you, like, even though we was beefing on what you're saying. And there was a level of being in New York and us always figuring it out that has a lot to do with how we got the wheel lock, how we dealt with your mom. And then there's another level of, like that point was right there. There's a level of people feeling like I was gonna take Kehlani from you.
Ivan Jackson:That was problematic for me. So problematic and insidious that I think we started to believe that. So threatening court for sport, like Yeah. Like, oh, you think we gotta go to court? Uh-uh.
Ivan Jackson:And there was always this rhetoric, but I understood this because at this point, it wasn't about us beefing. I was understanding her as a full human, and I think it by 2020, things really did start to sort out, but I think there were times where I used to try to speak to you, and the hate kinda amassed more than what we were trying to get accomplished, and that was
Thee Real Joy:I think for both of us. Yeah.
Ivan Jackson:Yeah. But I I I think what I'm trying to say is like, I feel like there were spaces where my hate or you felt like I was being hateful, and it was misconceived because that energy was there. Yeah. And I think that, that had a lot to do, this is why I'm following that, with people being in your ear, telling you that I was gonna take Kehlani. And I'm saying this because a lot of the times when we would beef or things wouldn't necessarily be congruent together, you'd be like, oh, you wanted to take it anyway.
Ivan Jackson:You wanted to spend the time to do that. And I'm thinking about times where I've done that to you too and where you're just so hurt that everything is interpreted as an attack. Right? And I think we started to change when, 1, we started to check those attacks right away because they happened. So like you get on the phone and you yelling, or she get to flicking her eyes a certain way or stuttering, it's just like, hold on, pause.
Ivan Jackson:But even this now, when I started getting loud, she kinda checked it. That's a natural, she knew, he might be getting a little heated about that, but it's just like heated about like, why would you even ever play with me like that? Like I'm still fake, why would you even play with me like that? Like, and it's, but it's being able to even in those moments, like, you know, check-in, you know, have those times where we could really kind of be human, like connecting at a human level, not for every title that we have, but like as a whole human, like I've seen you through these stages in your life, and now we kind of parenting, still growing up together, but growing up as parents and just trying to check all that. And I think what saved us co parenting is like, we can't talk to nobody else.
Ivan Jackson:We had to communicate with each other, right? Kehlani's godparent was amazing, an amazing mediator, but shit got a lot more peaceful when we kicked out the situation too. Like, it's times where we'll go to her for certain things, but it's just like when it comes to us 3, we gotta figure it out. Because if we gotta play the game of telephone to get there, there's always gonna be some messages misconstrued. So, you know, if I had to say anything or give anybody advice, it's just like, it's not easy.
Ivan Jackson:It take time. You're not gonna get there in a day, but it's like, and this is probably my advice for everything, preface the humanity in a person first and look at the full picture. And when you're 20 something, 17, 18, 19, you don't have the like, you don't have the mindset to really process all that at a time. But even as we got to sit here talking about it, it was so many so much misguided energy, so much misguided anger. A lot of it was so wrapped up in everything else but what the situation was.
Ivan Jackson:And it was like, I knew that your family supported Kehlani coming, and my problem with the rhetoric with them saying that I was gonna take her, was I felt like if I was there, the language was was gonna be like, oh, you need to, like I don't know. I feel like people always play 2 faces with it. Like, they say one thing to me, and say one thing to her. And this conversation around, like, they're gonna take him from her, but if I was there or in another space, they would have told her, this is the best person for Kehlani to be around, and he's gonna be this and show up this way for Kehlani. But in the process of them telling them that I was gonna take you, it was a jab at you.
Ivan Jackson:And I think I've always struggled with that in the co parenting situation, like, and I think I internalized those jabs at you, because I feel like you may not be defending yourself. And that's where a lot of the resentment and the anger came from, because it's despite what we've been or are to each other as a human, like and I say this, you know, I say this about anything. Don't let anybody play with you, but I think that that is also schools I went to, understandings that I came up under, like and how I was raised with certain things. So, yeah, it was that's definitely, like, I do the therapy stuff now, but being able to sit in front of the camera and really talk about it is like I think under packing all of it, we had this kid together, and now we're working together as kids to kinda as Neo kids and I had to kinda raise this kid, but we still trying to protect each other in the space and raise a kid that's a good, healthy part of society. Right?
Ivan Jackson:And teach her how to block out the noise that could have kinda trivialized us if we would have kept listening.
Thee Real Joy:So, yeah, like even like today, I think that we definitely have taken the things that we've learned and like all these different paths, like how you're saying, like from Wheelock to Indiana to us being in New York. I think that we talked so much about, like, the ugly parts. But for us to be able to sit on this couch today, there had to be some level of, like, respect. Right? Some level of love, some level of something that kinda got us to this point today.
Thee Real Joy:And I think that that's what kinda got us to this place of co parenting and just us being able to put our differences aside and just even, like, the different ways that we've grown up. I think you talked about it. Like, you do come from a 2 parent household. I do come from a single parent, but kinda just putting all that together to be this, like, foundation for Kehlani. Mhmm.
Thee Real Joy:And our village is strong. Like, we have such a great village. And I think that we had to take what we learned for so we've been on this journey together, like we said, for 14 years. Right? And then you have people who you add on to the journey this whole time.
Thee Real Joy:And it's kind of like expediting the journey for everyone to kinda get them to understand where we're at without giving them too much of my side, without giving them too much of your side. But we definitely want to give them the full picture of things because like I always tell Ivan, I do want people to understand how far we've come. I think that's really important for me. Like, I never wanted to be the type of family that just which is why we're doing this episode. I didn't want people to look at us and be like, oh my gosh.
Thee Real Joy:A lot of people do that. Like, you you and Ivan just have it figured out. I love the way you guys co parent. Like, you guys are so great. And I'm like, no.
Thee Real Joy:Like, we're going to take a moment to look at the growth of this situation because the growth is the beauty of it because you're taking kids who
Ivan Jackson:Had a kid.
Thee Real Joy:Who had a kid, and who are now adults, you know. So I never want to just not shed light to the growth, and I'm proud of you. I think, like
Ivan Jackson:Proud of you too.
Thee Real Joy:Every time, like, Father's Day comes around or birthdays come around, you know, how you send those texts, I think that we always try to highlight that growth. And, like, I'm just so proud. Like, I remember times where me and you couldn't get on the phone together. We had to have somebody else on the other end kind of mediating because I would tell you, don't wake up tomorrow. Or he would be like, you know, it was that bad to now sitting here having conversations and just being able to color this, you know, in a peaceful manner.
Thee Real Joy:So I don't know if you wanna
Ivan Jackson:Yeah. I think it's definitely interesting because the foundation that we've created now, this new foundation as as adults, as parents, is 10 years in. Right? It's definitely can be off putting for people who walk into co parents of situations and they're used to something else. Right?
Ivan Jackson:So for partners that we may choose, right, partners that we have, like she was saying, it's kind of like a sped up process for folks. I think when you think of, I'm a New York guy, right? When you think of the trains, MTA, when you think of everybody comes to the train or rides the subway with a different standpoint. Yeah. Different journey.
Ivan Jackson:Different
Thee Real Joy:mindset. Yeah.
Ivan Jackson:If you're taking the 2 train from Wakefield, right, you're going for 241st. So it's a different journey for somebody getting on from 241st going to Brooklyn College and somebody getting on at Third Avenue on 49th Street or 72nd Street and going to Brooklyn College. Right? And, I think that people meet us, and their perspectives of our journeys are different based on the stops that they get on at. Right?
Ivan Jackson:Yeah. And you could push it even further to say that people's perspective of the journey are different based on a zip code they get on the train from. Right? And I think that, it's a beautiful analogy. I appreciate that.
Ivan Jackson:So I think that is is, in a way, we we are we the train, or are we the conductors of the train?
Thee Real Joy:I think that we're the conductors because I think a lot of times too through this journey, I find myself defending you. You know, like, if if somebody is just hearing you, like, we say, like, if someone's coming new to my life and they would hear us talk and maybe someone has gotten in trouble, Kehlani has gotten in trouble, and your voice and your energy, I kinda almost like, no. You know, that's so it's so funny how I think, like, we are the conductors because it's like, no. Actually, like, I think we just have learned to preserve this space, and we have so much respect for each other that at one point in time, I may have given into that and be like, well, maybe. But now I'm like, no.
Thee Real Joy:No. No. That's my dog. Like, we good. Like, you know?
Thee Real Joy:So I do think we're the conductors because we're controlling it because it's our train. Right? Yeah. Like and that's like, we put the work into it. Like, we we put the work into it.
Thee Real Joy:So I think that it's very important and kinda like you were saying, I think that we do have this. Like, the other day, I was talking to Kehlani. I don't even think I told you this. It was Christmas morning, and she had opened up all her gifts. And for some reason, we got on the subject of you.
Thee Real Joy:And she was like, something something you and my dad. And I was like, do you know that me and your dad like used to be together before? And she was like, yeah. I was like, how do you know that? And she was like, I could talk about the way you guys like laugh and joke or whatever.
Thee Real Joy:Like, this like thing that you guys grow. Yeah. It's just like this thing that you guys have with each other. And I think that that too just shed light to the growth because at a certain point in her life She was. She didn't see that.
Thee Real Joy:So I think that us too just being, like, open with her. I think, like, as corny as it may seem to people, that's why I like for her to see us do our handshake together, like, I want her to see even, like, with your partner. I wanted her to see me and her, like, have this relationship because that's important because kids pay attention to how the people around them treat each other. Yeah. And that was big for me even when Ivan or when I date.
Thee Real Joy:Like, I feel like I always come to him first because I'm like, I want it to look like this. And not that I'm trying to control things, but for raising for me, I always say raising a little girl, raising a little girl. And being a woman now, I know that there's certain things that you need to see as a little girl that teaches you. Like, it's those unsaid moments. It's those little things that you might not have to say anything, but they're always looking.
Thee Real Joy:And I want her to see this example of the people around her. I want her to feel secure. I want her to feel like her village has love, that there's no the the adults can be adults, you know, in the background. If I disagree with you, I don't need her to feel that Yeah. Animosity or like that, you know.
Thee Real Joy:So yeah.
Ivan Jackson:Now which is and speaking to the kid, like, she's the best and the worst to both of us. Right? And I think that when she talks about her feeling it or feeling the confusion, she would. She would. And she's shown that
Thee Real Joy:very early on
Ivan Jackson:in in life, and I think that now she'll she'll speak about it, or she'll she'll have her ways of kind of communicating that she know what's up. And I think seeing her as an aware child or even sometimes an emotionally aware child who she'll shut down. Right? She'll have her moments where she don't wanna do nothing. She's the best and worst of her mother and father, and I think, and every other influence around her.
Ivan Jackson:Right? So grandma, school, friends, and, I think that in my style with her, like, and I and I tell her to her mom a lot, like, I find myself explaining so much or just trying to give her rationale. Like, even when I raise my voice, like, do you know why daddy raising his voice? You have an idea why I'm yelling at you. And if you can't really tell me, then we could discuss it.
Ivan Jackson:Or if you know, then we could discuss it.
Thee Real Joy:Or, like, my favorite moments is, when something happens here at school or something, I always try to FaceTime you.
Ivan Jackson:Yeah.
Thee Real Joy:And those are, like, my favorite moments, and I hope that they will be her favorite moments too growing up. Because if she's asking me for advice, I'll, like, get on FaceTime with him so quick. And, like, whether we're in the car, I'll put you up. And we'll have, like still being able to, like, give her those 2 parent household moments
Ivan Jackson:Yeah. Yeah.
Thee Real Joy:Even if we aren't under the same roof. And I think that that's what kinda changed my mindset when it came to co parenting. And that's what makes me be able to kinda stay consistent with my energy and vibe towards you because it's not necessarily how you make me feel. Like, I'm I'm not worried about that. It's more so what we can provide for her and kinda I don't think that our child should be anything should be taken away from her.
Ivan Jackson:Yeah.
Thee Real Joy:And that's what I think I always parent from that mindset of like, we're not under the same roof. We're not even in the same state, but nobody would know that because she sees you every weekend. So I love the way how our co parenting journey looks today. And I can't wait to see how it looks in 3 years 5 years. I do see us only going up from here.
Thee Real Joy:So I'm excited. And I thank you for being here today.
Ivan Jackson:Alright. Thank you.
Thee Real Joy:And this was amazing. This was great. I'm pretty sure this won't be the only time that, you know, the viewers see you.
Ivan Jackson:Maybe we add Kehlani to the next one.
Thee Real Joy:Yeah. That would be cool. I can do a q and a with her. Yeah. That would be dope.
Thee Real Joy:But again, thank you for being here.
Ivan Jackson:Thank you for giving us the space.
Thee Real Joy:Yeah. And we'll see you guys next time. Thank you so much for tuning into the Real Joy podcast. I hope today's conversation brought you closer to finding your own joy and left you feeling inspired. Don't forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode.
Thee Real Joy:If you like what you heard, share it with your circle. It might be just the thing they need. Let's keep growing, glowing and finding joy together. Until next time. Take care of yourself and remember to keep it relaxed, relatable and real.
Thee Real Joy:See you soon.
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